[sumo] Re: Moderation

[Mike Chamberlain]

There is absolutely no need to moderate this list.  It has functioned very 
well for more than a decade without moderation.

This is simply a bad idea.

If you want to start a moderated list, go elsewhere and do it.

Beisuborumaru (ret.)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Barbara" <barbara at technogirls.org>
To: "Sumo Mailing List" <sumo at webtrek.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: [sumo] Re: Moderation


>
>
> Dale Carlson wrote:
>> At 07:41 PM 5/5/2007 -0700, Barbara wrote:
>>> I suggest the owner of the list change it to a fully moderated one, and 
>>> squash off topic messages without mercy.  This is NOT a chat room. We 
>>> don't need to debate how offended or not we are when an off topic 
>>> message comes through.  We should only be discussing sumo.
>>
>> I could not disagree more. I regard the members of this list as friends.
>> We aren't one-dimensional sumo fans. We are people who like sumo.
>> And hopefully each other as well. There is life beyond sumo for most
>
> But I claim you are making my point for me.
> It is typical of people who subscribe to one and only one mailing list to 
> try to make it into a multipurpose one. They want social chat as well as 
> on-topic chat.  Social chat can sometimes be on topic too.  But if you are 
> subscribed to a half dozen mailing lists that is the last thing you want. 
> Mailing lists are easy to make.  We can have a sumo-moderated list as well 
> as a "sumo chat" list for friendly banter which may or may not have to do 
> with sumo.  That way people who don't mind the random unrelated chatter 
> can enjoy their mailing list but the rest of us wanting a more pure 
> experience can hang out only in the other. I'm sorry if I seem harsh, but 
> too often I've seen mailing lists collapse as furious subscribers leave in 
> a huff never to return.  Strict on-topic mailing lists are such a pleasure 
> to read. The quality of posts seems to increase, even. Partly because 
> "old-timers" stay subscribed for decades at a time, and their writings are 
> pure gold. But lists full of people using it for personal chat can become 
> a burden and an irritant for those who are subscribed to many at once. 
> Anyway again I stress that I do not want to seem harsh or critical of this 
> list's owner because it isn't his fault these kinds of things are 
> happening.
>
> Here is the introductory text to an anime mailing list I have been 
> moderating since 1996, as an example of a fully moderated list:
> -----
> " The list
> is private and moderated.  I check, alter, and delete messages
> to keep out spam, trash, non-members, commercial tag lines, flamboyant
> signature lines, excessive quote text, accidental submissions, abusive
> or personally insulting messages, and other unwanted mail.  However, I
> never change one word of anything you have written - if part of your
> message is unacceptable, it is returned to you with an explanation, and
> an invitation to resubmit it.  An example of such a message is an on-topic
> message you wrote which also contains an abusive or insulting reference
> to another person on the list.  Your on-topic message is very much wanted,
> but I will ask you to remove the personal attack and send it back.
> The majority of list members have participated for years and have never
> received a returned email, but you should know that it could happen.
> Your name is never revealed
> unless you sign your messages.  Only your email address is visible.
> If you never write a message, no one will ever know you are on the
> list.  (This type of behavior is called "lurking" and is OK...)
> Email addresses in list messages are protected from internet spam
> email harvesters because I do not allow message archives
> to be exposed to the Internet or to be scanned by Google.
> I encourage you to sign your messages and let people get to
> know you.  You'll find that our many members are among the most
> knowledgable and helpful found on any such mailing list.  Ugly arguments,
> feuds, and rude messages will never be a problem.  Discussions are
> in great depth, with many members being experts in some aspect of anime." 
> End of quote.
> ---------
>
> Full moderation has other benefits too. For instance, in this sumo list, 
> frequently personal emails get sent accidentally to the whole mailing 
> list.  A moderator can recognize such a thing and prevent the message from 
> going through.  This can save a member from quite severe embarrassment, if 
> the message is a sensitive one!
>
> Obviously, the problem with moderated lists is the moderator. If the 
> moderator is unobjective, lazy, or otherwise unsatisfactory, the mailing 
> list fails.  If the moderator is good, the list thrives.  I would like 
> this list to be fully moderated, but I'm not sure I'm volunteering for 
> such a thing. Full moderation can be messy to set up for the moderator. 
> I'm probably too busy to take on another list.
>
> Anyway, I'm impatient for this basho to start. You can probably tell.
> This basho, I'm going to put up 1 or more videos on my website each day, 
> with commentary, like I did for basho 1 this year.  I finished the support 
> code to allow me to do that easily and cleanly. (For an example of what it 
> does see my site http://www.technogirls.org/enka/ ) So being able to put 
> things up quickly makes a difference.  Warning: I will also indulge myself 
> fully in including opinionated commentary on each submission too, just for 
> fun.  You can read it, laugh at it, ignore it, whichever you like. But the 
> files will be there.  As for the "passing the torch" game, I will probably 
> not run it this basho.  Too much to do.
>
> Barbara Murasakihana
>
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