[sumo] [spoilers]Asashoryu's open armed and beloved return.

[Moti]

----- Original Message ----
From: Scott M. Kahn <smk1 at columbia.edu>
Quoting Moti <kintamayama at yahoo.com>:


<<A Clintonian-like revision.  Please reread posts from the time of
the incident.  Especially reports of inflamed oyakata>>

That was then, we are talking about now, no? Things change according to the situation, and the situation is that now he has apologized. Different ballgame.


> Not "after some reflection"- after the apology. The "average"
> Japanese wanted some sort of sign that Asa understood he was
> wrong, and when they got that , they just naturally moved on.
> Like most of us, BTW.

<<He was wrong for a transgression, not a manslaughter.  And you
forget that the initial hysterical outburst was for his banishment,
reread the polls at that time.  Perhaps this is a lesson to those
who reacted in haste that there are more trying issues that they
should have been focusing on. >>

That's human nature.At the beginning, everyone is hotheaded. with time, things are forgotten. Again, things have changed-he apologized. That part of the puzzle was missing back then. I still think if he would have apologized and returned to Japan immediately, most of this could have been avoided.

<< Asashoryu's dedication to his
position has always been there, as I and others who are far, far
better acquainted with him have related in many posts.>.

At the risk of repeating myself, being acquainted with him has no bearing on this discussion.That is a major issue between us. I have quite a few acquaintances but that doesn't mean they could do no wrong.

<< How ironic
that a simple display of participation in a Jungyo on an injured
heel gets more sympathy than when Asashoryu participated in
Hakuho's final Ozeki basho with injured arms, back, etc. and fought
him for a minute on the dohyo, only so that Hakuho would earn his
promotion by defeating a Yokozuna.  To me, that is the ultimate
display of respect for one's position as Yokozuna.  I guess there
are only selected times when such participation is viewed as
yokozuna-like.>>

Apples and oranges. He showed great dedication here, and screwed up there. He was the first yokozuna ever to lose by hair-pulling, and yet he graciously gave his kensho money to a retiring gyoji. That's life. You get the spotlight on you when you screw up, and not when you do what is expected of you.

<<OK.  I still think the Kyokai needs to understand how to better
manage the public perception of foreign wrestlers.>>
What? A different attitude towards foreign wrestlers? Shouldn't it be the other way around? The foreigners adapting to the sport they joined and its ways? The public perception of foreign wrestlers is not helped by their unwillingness to bow after a loss, their beating up on the press, etc..It's not the Kyokai's job, it's the foreigners' job (or any rikishi's job, regardless of origin) to adapt.


<<Takanohana was promoted as a rebirth of a sumo deity.  Asashoryu,
who has changed how sumo is performed, has been promoted as a bad
boy. >.
Whoa.... Asashouryuu has "changed how sumo is performed"??? I'd love for you to elaborate on that.

<<< From what I know of both individuals, Asashoryu exhibits many
more of the qualities that I would want from a yokozuna.  No, the
Kyokai would rather promote Takamisakari because of his nonsensical
and immature antics.>>

OK, I'm losing you totally here.. Say what??? The Kyokai will promote whoever wins more bouts, not whoever is more flamboyant. I don't see what you are trying to say. So you would want your Yokozuna to be above the rules? Or would you bend the rules every time your yokozuna slips up? Where's the boundary, the limit to what a yokozuna can do, in your eyes?
>
> No. He missed the tournaments because of a career ending knee
> injury. All the rest is speculation. And let's not get started
> with steroids and Asa , shall we..It's all speculation.
> Takanohana didn't fly to Paris to get his knee operated because
> of steroids. And even if for argument's sake he was on steroids,
> it was the knee that ended his career.

<<His knee injury occurred as the result of steroid use.  Too much
weight on his frame and stress.  That's OK, I think enough time has
passed for all of us to publicly admit that.  You have permission. 
By the way, do you have a close up of Takanohana's face while he
was on steroids?>>

The same can be said for Asashouryuu.  Yet you prefer to skip that part. Throwing mud at a dai-yokozuna without any shred of evidence just to make a point about someone else is not nice. You make it sound as if you KNOW that happened for a fact. Evidence please. Give me a quote on that from a tabloid.

<<Takanohana's career ended because he sold his soul. >.
Sez you. Totally unaccepted by me. Any substantial evidence to back that up? Any shred of evidence other than what you THINK is steroid use?

<<<Asashoryu's
suspension was a result of participation in a charity soccer match.
 And, we haven't been told the entire story.  While you might think
that Asashoryu was completely at fault, the truth has not come out
about the circumstances and inner agreements between Asashoryu and
Kitanoumi and the Kyokai. >>

Oh, so now you have some concrete inside information about a conspiracy in high places that only a select few, including you, are privy to..


<<You may believe what you want, I haven't
seen evidence that the Kyokai was not aware of Asashoryu's injuries
and whererabouts.  I suspect he was given permission to miss the
Jungyo (the back injury listed was chronic, not serious), but he
screwed up by participating in the charity soccer event.  The
Kyokai got caught with its mawashi down when Asashoryu was filmed
at the charity event.  Of course it is Asashoryu's responsibility
for partaking, and terrible judgement.  But I see nothing that
convinces me that the reaction was not a cover up for the Kyokai's
embarassment and mishandling of the situation and the sponsors, and
that Asashoryu was the victim of an absurd decision brought upon by
a consortium of rabid oyakata who never appreciated him in the
first place.>>

This is so way off the scale of logic I don't know how to handle it. EVIDENCE???
 Of course he was given permission to miss the jungyo-he had a note from his doctor excusing him from PE class for 6 weeks. Where's the scoop in THAT?? That's the whole point of the argument.
And I see now you acknowledge he screwed up and that it was terrible judgment!! So actually, we agree!!  


<<,Public hype vs. actual personality, and Japanese vs. Mongolian. 
Again, personally, I would rather Asashoryu have my back than
Takanohana, based on generous and valuable reports from the more
knowledgable people on this list, yourself included...  If you or
others have warm Takanohana anecdotes, I'd love to read them so
that I could reevaluate my opinion.>>

I haven't said a word about my personal like or dislike of Takanohana, yet you keep coming back to this point. I have mentioned Sumo fans in general, not me. And there really is no argument that Takanohana was vastly more popular than Asa in Japan, even before the scandal. Asa is widely disliked for many reasons, without going into them. Just a fact. So much so, that he burst into tears upon winning the yusho a few basho ago when he heard one guy yelling out his name-these are his words.   I don't want you to reevaluate your opinion of Takanohana.- you have already said things about him based on the oxygen in the atmosphere only and "insider stories" and nothing I or anyone else will say can change your attitude towards him..I want you to get your facts straight. It has nothing to do with who or what I personally like, which is arguable. Popularity of a rikishi as a fact , is just that- a fact. Takanohana was far more popular than Asa. That's all I'm
 saying. I'm not saying if that is the way the universe should line up. It's the way it is. And what you or I personally would prefer has no bearing on this fact. I don't base my evaluation of someone's action on the sole fact that I met him-I base it on the facts as I know them, which I of course divulge, and not on some fuzzy insider information. 
Now, if you would care to elaborate on these shady deals you are accusing the Kyokai of,  backed with hard evidence, I and all of us here would love to hear it.
There is not much use in a discussion when you make some really serious allegations without letting us in on the sordid details in full. Otherwise, it's just based on gossip and rumor. Even an article in a tabloid referring to what you are saying would at least be a start..
Cheers!
Kintamayama








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