[sumo] [spoilers]Asashoryu's open armed and beloved return.

[Martina Lunau]

I'm getting a bit bored of reading the same arguments as months before about
Asa now enriched with a representative poll of the japanese people.

Asa made a clever comeback, although I don't think he apologized because he
thought he was wong, but because he was expected to apologize. I don't care,
I don't need his apologize, everybody is pleased, so now they should care
about more important things like how to find a better way to supervise their
heya.

But what's the whole discussion about Takanohana now supposed to mean? Do we
now have to judge who is the better Yokozuna, who has more or the nicer
personality, who has more dignity ......... If you are awaiting so
desperately reforms by the Kyokai, you should count on Takanohana a bit
more.

When I remember right one of your arguments in the Asashoryu case was : Hey,
I had dinner with him and he is such a nice personality ( well he surely is,
no doubt about it). So I will counter to give you a warm Takanohana
anecdote: Hey, I had dinner with him and he is a really nice, charming,
intelligent, handsome young man with a deep love for sumo, with a lot of
respect for Asashoryu and hopefully he plays an important role sooner or
later in the Kyokai.


2007/12/8, Scott M. Kahn <smk1 at columbia.edu>:
>
>
> Quoting Moti <kintamayama at yahoo.com>:
>
>
> > I don't know where you got that impression from. The only person
> > to openly call for his retirement was Ms. Uchidate, and even she
> > was appeased after his "show" at the YDC special meeting. No
> > serious newspaper (other than the usual very yellow tabloids)
> > report has called for his resignation either. Some public figures
> >  have openly called for that, but they are very, very few, as I
> > wrote before. I feel you are bursting through an open door
> > here-there is no great conspiracy to oust Asa from the sumo
> > world, just a simple, (what you call traditionalist), wish fro
> > him to act like a Yokozuna-no more, no less.
>
> A Clintonian-like revision.  Please reread posts from the time of
> the incident.  Especially reports of inflamed oyakata.
>
>
> > Then either you've spoken only to foreigners who aren't very
> > familiar with the inner workings of Sumo, or your Japanese
> > friends are special. Everyone I know who is a fan, Japanese or
> > otherwise, said otherwise.
>
> It was many Japanese friends and work acquaintances, no foreigners.
> They have varying degrees of sumo familiarity, from not having
> attended tournaments to avid fans.  I'd like to think they are
> special.  And, in full disclosure, a few were at my throat when I
> suggested xenophobic reasons for the suspension.  I hope this is
> representative.
>
>
> > Not "after some reflection"- after the apology. The "average"
> > Japanese wanted some sort of sign that Asa understood he was
> > wrong, and when they got that , they just naturally moved on.
> > Like most of us, BTW.
>
> He was wrong for a transgression, not a manslaughter.  And you
> forget that the initial hysterical outburst was for his banishment,
> reread the polls at that time.  Perhaps this is a lesson to those
> who reacted in haste that there are more trying issues that they
> should have been focusing on.  Asashoryu's dedication to his
> position has always been there, as I and others who are far, far
> better acquainted with him have related in many posts.  How ironic
> that a simple display of participation in a Jungyo on an injured
> heel gets more sympathy than when Asashoryu participated in
> Hakuho's final Ozeki basho with injured arms, back, etc. and fought
> him for a minute on the dohyo, only so that Hakuho would earn his
> promotion by defeating a Yokozuna.  To me, that is the ultimate
> display of respect for one's position as Yokozuna.  I guess there
> are only selected times when such participation is viewed as
> yokozuna-like.
>
> >
> > I don't thing you're wrong or right in your call for reform. I
> > just think it won't happen. It's very simple. I  think that the
> > way it is is OK, there just has to be closer control and
> > supervision of things, but if they decide to do away with hitting
> > guys on the head with a bamboo stick for instance, I wouldn't
> > complain.
> >
>
> OK.  I still think the Kyokai needs to understand how to better
> manage the public perception of foreign wrestlers.
>
> >
> > Again, point missed. HE first has to relate to the "rules" in a
> > positive manner, then I'm pretty sure the Kyokai will promote him
> > in a positive manner.
> > Not to tread water-Asa works for THEM, not the other way around,
> > regardless of how strong he is and how he helps sell tickets and
> > how the basho is more exciting with two Yokozunas etc.. etc..Here
> > comes the eternal cliche- no athlete is bigger than the sport.
>
> Takanohana was promoted as a rebirth of a sumo deity.  Asashoryu,
> who has changed how sumo is performed, has been promoted as a bad
> boy.  From what I know of both individuals, Asashoryu exhibits many
> more of the qualities that I would want from a yokozuna.  No, the
> Kyokai would rather promote Takamisakari because of his nonsensical
> and immature antics.  As I have said before, I think the Kyokai has
> missed the boat.
>
>
> >
> > No. He missed the tournaments because of a career ending knee
> > injury. All the rest is speculation. And let's not get started
> > with steroids and Asa , shall we..It's all speculation.
> > Takanohana didn't fly to Paris to get his knee operated because
> > of steroids. And even if for argument's sake he was on steroids,
> > it was the knee that ended his career.
>
> His knee injury occurred as the result of steroid use.  Too much
> weight on his frame and stress.  That's OK, I think enough time has
> passed for all of us to publicly admit that.  You have permission.
> By the way, do you have a close up of Takanohana's face while he
> was on steroids?
>
> >
> > Again, let's stick to the facts here. Even the most ardent
> > xenophobe and Asa fan will not buy this theory.
>
> Takanohana's career ended because he sold his soul.  Asashoryu's
> suspension was a result of participation in a charity soccer match.
> And, we haven't been told the entire story.  While you might think
> that Asashoryu was completely at fault, the truth has not come out
> about the circumstances and inner agreements between Asashoryu and
> Kitanoumi and the Kyokai.  You may believe what you want, I haven't
> seen evidence that the Kyokai was not aware of Asashoryu's injuries
> and whererabouts.  I suspect he was given permission to miss the
> Jungyo (the back injury listed was chronic, not serious), but he
> screwed up by participating in the charity soccer event.  The
> Kyokai got caught with its mawashi down when Asashoryu was filmed
> at the charity event.  Of course it is Asashoryu's responsibility
> for partaking, and terrible judgement.  But I see nothing that
> convinces me that the reaction was not a cover up for the Kyokai's
> embarassment and mishandling of the situation and the sponsors, and
> that Asashoryu was the victim of an absurd decision brought upon by
> a consortium of rabid oyakata who never appreciated him in the
> first place.
>
> > I never said that. Taka was a beloved wrestler, while Asa was
> > never well- liked, even before the last scandal, as I have said
> > in my former post. In spite of this, he was welcomed warmly by
> > the jungyo crowd. Asa, regretfully, will never be accepted like
> > Takanohana, for  reasons we seem to disagree upon.
>
> Public hype vs. actual personality, and Japanese vs. Mongolian.
> Again, personally, I would rather Asashoryu have my back than
> Takanohana, based on generous and valuable reports from the more
> knowledgable people on this list, yourself included...  If you or
> others have warm Takanohana anecdotes, I'd love to read them so
> that I could reevaluate my opinion.
>
>
> >
> > Cheers!
> > Kintamayama
>
> Respectfully and appreciatively,
>
> Sukubidubidu
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sumo mailing list
> Sumo at webtrek.com
> http://www.webtrek.com/mailman/listinfo/sumo
>