[sumo] Mark Buckton is attacking Le Monde du Sumo !!!

Fri Nov 3 17:12:11 EST 2006

Dear Nicolas,

Please don't keep using "they". I thought we solved my problem with the
photo use between the two of us - and I thought I sent a very nice letter
responding to your very kind response to mine.

I will not get into this argument over the ML or the Forum, because, from
my point of view, I considered the case closed. If you recall from my
email, I even offered to provide you with photos.

I am not responsible for the posts of others. I speak for myself. And as I
said, I thought we resolved MY issue with the photo to the satisfaction of
both of us.

As for Keri Sibley, I will write to him as well, since I sent the
referenced email to him in error, and apologized when he corrected ME.

Also, I believe that people think that you have been quoting me in your
posts. 

But, my offer still stands about providing you with photos, if you need
any. And they will not have been published anywhere.

Regards,

Barbara

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Nicolas Schuler nschuler at wanadoo.fr
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 19:40:02 +0100
To: sumo at webtrek.com
Subject: Re: [sumo] Mark Buckton is attacking Le Monde du Sumo !!!

Thank you all for your kind (or not) replies.

As Skubidubidu is speaking about money, here's another line : how could 
we afford to pay anything to anyone, when we don't receive a single euro 
for what we are doing on our free time, most of the time to the 
detriment of our family lives, and just for the satisfaction to bring 
people to read about sumo ?
It actually costs us money to run the website...

And I perfectly understand your point of view as a scientist... but here 
again, there are no thousands of dollars.
All we get sometimes are messages from people who read what we offer 
them, and say "hey, thank you for this work", or "I haven't had the 
opportunity to read French since High School, but now I took back my old 
school books in order to understand what you write".
And I don't think I ever read "wow, your pictures are great, that's what 
I like most in your magazine"... that must be because people come to 
read our magazine mainly for what we WRITE, and not for all the pictures 
they can see inside !

On an opposite side, we only ONCE used (and it was a mistake, as I 
didn't know) a picture that belongs to SFM. And, as you can see, I 
removed it immediately upon their request, apologizing, etc.
Shouldn't they be satisfied with it ?

Or do they want something more... ?
Are they so megalomanic that they would want to become the ONLY source 
of information available on the internet, and for this make us disappear 
because we are getting too much attention ?
I don't have the answer...

And if you set "law" aside, just for one moment... how do we harm 
newspapers, from which we "borrow" our picture ? Our issues come online 
many weeks after the release of the pictures on the internet, so there's 
no scoop here ! And by the way, how many people would chose not to visit 
these sites , which most of the times they wouldn't visit at all because 
they don't read japanese, and prefer to wait for our issues to come ?
And what about Nihon Sumo Kyokai ? Do we harm them, by helping 
popularize sumo in countries where alsmot NOTHING exists to read about 
sumo ?

I really don't understand why people keep on trying to destroy 
everything that's disinterested and without commercial purpose...

salut,
Nicolas

Scott Kahn a écrit:

> I would like to chime in with my 2 yen's worth.
>
> There is a cost consideration in obtaining photographs, not to mention 
> the time that is taken to post them as part of the magazine.  When 
> these photographs are "borrowed", after being copyrighted, it is 
> really in effect stealing them, no matter how benevolent the intention.
>
> While one can argue whether on line material should be subject to 
> copyright laws, the truth is, that these photographs do have copyright 
> protection.  And, as such, permission to use them should be obtained 
> for the cost reasons that I mentioned above.  So, Le Monde was wrong 
> to use them without first obtaining permission.
>
> How might this be settled?  That is up to sumofanmagazine and Le 
> Monde.  If Le Monde has burned any trust that sumofanmagazine might 
> have in them, then that is too bad for Le Monde.  As a sumo fan who 
> starves for any information and who appreciates deeply the efforts of 
> all who bring this wonderful and delicious sport to all of us, I would 
> hope that this could be amiacably worked out between the parties 
> involved, because I don't know that the average sumo fan really cares 
> about such issues.  They just want to enjoy and feel that the sumo 
> domain is for all to appreciate.
>
> Some suggestions-  Le Monde pay sumofanmagazine for the rights to use 
> their photographs, either a subscription to their photo base, and/or 
> some other venue to help pay for costs.  This may include publicity 
> for sumofanmagazine in Le Monde, credit next to the photos, links to 
> sumofanmagazine, etc., etc.  Since sumofanmagazine could use such good 
> publicity, this would serve to broaden their fan base, if the feelings 
> toward Le Monde are not irreversable at this time.
>
> I guess that I can relate to the situation as a scientist.  Say that I 
> come up with an idea and I publish it in a copyrighted journal.  Then, 
> someone comes along and takes my publication, copies it, and publishes 
> under his own name.  Would I be angry?  You bet.  And this is not a 
> dreamt up scenario.  A department director did this to me and profited 
> off of it by stealing and republishing my work as his own and 
> obtaining hundreds of thousands of dollars in grant money by 
> submitting a grant application with my work, behind my back.  Should 
> science be free to the masses?  You bet.  But not at the expense of 
> those doing the real work because I have a career and a family to 
> support.
>
> Sukubidubidu
>
> moti wrote:
>
>> >>>>This issue started at the beginning of this week, when him and Ms 
>> Klein
>> contacted me, to let me know that we had been using a picture on which
>> Ms Klein has a copyright, asking for removal and apologies.
>> Which I did to Ms Klein, sending a copy to Mr Buckton.
>> (you can check, there's now a red disclaimer on page 28 of MDS#18)
>>
>> It is true that we never asked newspaper websites and the like that we
>> were "borrowing" pictures from them. But we never ever made any single
>> euro on this ! Our only purpose is to provide non-japanese people with
>> information concerning our common passion : sumo.
>> And we always asked "private" people for permission to use some of their
>> photos when we wanted some.>>>>>
>>
>>
>> I for one couldn't care less if anyone used my pictures that are 
>> publicly posted, as did happen when Sadogatake were here. I'd 
>> actually be more than happy to oblige anyone asking for permission to 
>> use them, and probably wouldn't mind running into them on sites that 
>> didn't ask..
>> But I am a private person, and my livelihood does not depend on 
>> anything Sumo-related. Hence, I can't judge anyone who is in a 
>> position where his livelihood may or may not be jeopardised.
>> OTOH, there are a few more internet magazines, video sites, news 
>> sites (cough..cough..) and forums out there that use copyrighted 
>> photos, not to mention blatant rip-offs from copyrighted articles.
>> I fail to see why the French magazine is any different in that respect.
>>
>> Kintamayama
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>
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